boundaries - CoupleDumb

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          We are going deep into the murky waters of relationships this week. One of the most complicated relationships we have is our association with our children and parents. Our kids are borne of us but are not us. Our parents gave us everything and we are not beholden to them. This is just the beginning and we’re already confused.

          Lee says: I remember the day I became a Mom for the first time. I felt sick to my stomach and immediately had a headache. The contradictions of parenting and your feelings for your kids make it impossible to stay out of the dysfunctional arena. We know our job is to raise them to be good citizens and to model the best behavior. However, what do you do when another kid smacks your precious baby or an adult crushes their hopes to be the next world famous tuba player? All I say is, God help those people because I would kill them.

          I’m a firm believer in boundaries in all relationships and this is imperative in parenting. Establishing boundaries with our kids not only teach them respect and creates safety but also teaches a child individuality. As in any relationship preserving your ‘you-ness’ is so important. Wives who become just an appendage of their husband’s or kids who are trophies or extensions of their parents are the classic examples of what happens in the land without boundaries. You wouldn’t expect a Mama’s Boy to be a CEO or Norman Bates to be a good husband and father.

          Which of course brings us to rule number two of healthier relationships:

          Establish healthy boundaries with everyone.

          It sounds simplistic but it seems virtually impossible for people to accomplish this. Violating boundaries is like a past time for people. Insulting, assuming, disrespecting, touching, ignoring are just some ways that boundaries get violated on a daily basis. How often do you do this to people? Our kids are the biggest victims of these violations. Even on a community level we tend to ignore the needs of kids and then try to smooth it over by saying ‘We’re doing all of this for the children’. We, as a community, don’t give a shit for the children! Trust me! I see how much my neighbors recycle.

          Paul says: I think the difficulties with creating boundaries with our children are that they are different from those that we have with other adults and that they change. I know that the relationship that I have with my friends generally does not allow me to lean over the table and say ‘Hey, you don’t want dessert. Let’s try making healthy choices’ unless I want my ass thoroughly kicked. Yet with our kids, we have these conversations daily. They are a matter of parenting responsibility.

          Establishing boundaries in children is an interesting double edge sword that we generally do not deal with in adults. Technically, when a person creates a boundary with us, we have the choice whether or not to accept that boundary. With adults, we usually set the boundary and the other person either accepts it or the relationship ends.

          ‘Stop cheating on me.’

          ‘Nope.’

          ‘OK, bye.’

          With children we violate their boundaries all of the time without the relationship ending.

          ‘I want candy.’

          ‘Nope.’

          ‘OK, how about an apple?’

          The other stumbling block to good child-parent relationships is that that boundary conversation changes over the years. The ‘I want candy’ dialogue is very different for a 6 year old, a 16 year old, and a 26 year old. I work very hard at seeing my teenage daughter as my little girl (because I believe that daddy’s are supposed to do that) while allowing her to create healthy burgeoning adult boundaries. I’m the first to acknowledge that she is better at making healthy boundaries with me than I am with her. I know that I have mixed messages like ‘tell me everything but not the scary stuff’. Hey, I see it, I acknowledge it, and I’m working on it.

          Lee continues: Or we take it too far and give them too much leeway to create boundaries. ‘Of course my precious Porsche, your pony can sleep in your room.’ The operative term is ‘HEALTHY’ boundaries.

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As we sit here trying to write while our 2 year old screeches ‘Mine, mine, mine!!!’ over and over again, it’s harder than you can imagine writing about kids and parenting without having thoughts of abuse or cardboard boxes with small air-holes. Lately, the job of daily writing has been doubly hard due to the added nuisance of having 2 young boys wedged firmly up our asses at all times. And, since they were both recently ill, their sleep schedules are all messed up so we can’t even be assuaged by the promise of peace at a certain time of the day. In a corporation, what are the principles to do when your products are interfering with the healthy functioning of the entity?

Lee says: Speaking only from my experience, I find that when the kids take over the majority of my thoughts, my stress level and hackles go up. I am Mama Bear and whether the culprits are illness, school or other people, I am ready for a fight. I tend to have difficulty sleeping anyway and this stressor just exacerbates an already chronic condition.

Recently, we have had to deal with 16 year old angst and arguing and the boys tag teamed us with a stomach virus. Elbow deep in puke and poop, dealing with an adolescent’s case of the ‘fuck its’ was too much for both of us after 5 days and we needed to regroup. I find that Paul tends to get grouchy and I tend to get contemplative with bouts of momentary explosions. So as parents, what is the best way of dealing with this? What do you do when being parents becomes all-encompassing and that marriage or relationship takes a back seat to the kids?

This is where I flex my education. In Marriage and Family therapy, there is a theory that talks about the roles we play and specifically the hierarchy of said roles. In this theory, the relationship of husband and wife is the primary relationship, or whatever combo you have whether boyfriend/girlfriend, hubby/hubby, or wife/wife, co-parents is under that and then the children fall under that. It is ordered by importance and the line, or boundaries, between each role tier is vital.

In simple English, the adult relationship is first. You can’t be good parents if you let the primary relationship fail. You can’t be good parents if you let your kids take over your lives, discount or dismiss the importance of or violate the boundaries and sanctity of the relationship. Even in single parent families, parents forget that they are men and women first then parents. Disregarding the primary entity of the corporation (ie. Marriage, relationship, Man, Woman), is the first step to floundering as parents.

Parents teach their children healthy ways-of-being not from parenting but from modeling. If a parent maintains healthy relationships, so will their kids. If a parent is a happy adult, their children will probably follow suit. If a parent commands respect and maintains healthy boundaries while pursuing their own happiness in relationship, the children will do the same. Parents who choose to invest all their energy in their children, to the detriment of their own lives, will ultimately breed kids who have a skewed concept of healthy boundaries, the role of parents, and relationships in general. These children tend to have entitlement issues.

So you’re wondering how we handled the 16 year old and our boys, the walking hemorrhoids. Simple, we had a date on Thursday, decided our daughter better step up to the plate and had her start taking care of the little ones. We figure if something goes terribly wrong, problem solved.

Paul says: In next week’s post, we discuss proper product shipping methods. How many holes do you poke in the box? Is bubble wrap better than packing peanuts? Will FedEx give them snacks?

Pilar asks: Does a child from 13 to whatever age 17, 18, 19 have the right to privacy? I mean if we are concerned about something regarding your son/daughter don’t we have the right to go into their myspace for example. I have been talking to several parents and they seem to think if they are living under my roof they have no privacy. My thoughts exactly but some parents believe it’s unethical to go through their myspace.

Or to even say to them in another situation you are not going out tonight if they are 18 or over. I feel if I have reason to think that they can’t go out that’s it period the end. Not just because they are 18 we can’t tell them what to do anymore.

Is it just latin parents that feel this way? (Like I do)

What do you guys think?

Paul says: No, kids do not have privacy but they do have boundaries. Privacy, the way that I think you are using it here, has a connotation of ownership and I do come from the ‘you don’t own shit’ school of parenting. Children are chattel, albeit very special property. (Oh, my children must love me.) We have the right to have as many houses, car and children as we want, no matter how ill conceived the idea may be. If we didn’t, then Octo-mom would never have been allowed to have the second litter. If the child wants to own their space then they need to get a job and a mortgage.

That being said, there is a sense of boundaries. Though a child does not own their space, they can make the statement that the space is important to them and you can honor that statement, giving it importance also. This gives the child a sense of propriety without ownership. I always knock on my daughter’s door but I do not necessarily wait for her to allow me access.

Speaking to the important part of your question, entering the area that you have both agreed is important gives a clear message. You are saying ‘I do not trust you’. Now, before your react, check in with yourself. That may be the statement that you want to make. If, as an example, you think that your child is using drugs, then you do not trust their judgment. It that is the message, then say it. If you cannot look your kid in the eye and tell them that you do not trust them and why with what they need to do to earn your trust, then don’t go in the room. You can’t handle it.

Lee says: Isn’t he cute? He thought she meant my space not a ‘Myspace’ page. Pilar, I totally hear you. Like I have said before, our only job is to keep them safe. We do this by teaching them right from wrong, how to wash and that sticking cheerios up their nose is bad. Part of keeping them safe is also protecting them from the big bad world. There are some sick fucks who prey on weak kids. By definition, a weak child is one who has parents who are not involved in their lives.

When our daughter wanted a ‘myspace’, we helped her set it up and kept her password. Paul and I created our own page to monitor her. The same thing happened when she joined Facebook. I joined to watch her and once again, I have her user name and password. A few months ago, she posted a picture of herself on Facebook which we deemed inappropriate because she appeared seductive. That was totally our judgment but it didn’t matter. She removed the picture.

I agree with my better half that kids have boundaries not privacy. The semantics are important. Privacy has more to do with secrecy and boundaries delineate levels of safety. Since we don’t believe in secrecy, boundaries always win over. Only one bedroom is allowed to be locked in our home; that’s ours. The lock is a boundary (we will have a post soon regarding bedroom rules). The boundary is to keep the kids from being scarred and that is the only time the door is locked.

Healthy Boundaries For All

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Yes, I called them chattel

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